Stanford should be an Ivy League school as opposed to Cornell or Dartmouth

Question

Stanford is a lot more universally known than Dartmouth and Cornell. It also has a bigger school population and is just as rigorous as those too. This is just an opinion so what do you guys think?

Answer 1

While I understand this post was originally for opinions, after researching Britannica it seems that Ivy Leagues " formally organized only in 1956, competition between the colleges dates back to football meetings in the 1870s." It seems that they were more famous for football. After doing more research at Princeton University's archives with this lead, I found that "when initiated by administrators in the eight schools in September 1946, the 'Ivy Group' was concerned about growing interest in college athletics as a form of national entertainment, especially football."  According to Princeton, the Ivies were apparently a place where student-athletes could participate in sports without the desire to become professionals who were recruited or "students who were exploited for the material gain of their institutions."  The article also addresses how the phrase is no longer limited to athletics but now is related to the educational element we all know the Ivy's for today. The history of the exclusivity of the Ivy School selection is given more in football during that time period rather than what we associate with them now, which is why schools like Stanford are not officially Ivy League.  

Links to Sources: 

https://www.britannica.com/topic/University-of-Pennsylvania 

https://universityarchives.princeton.edu/2015/07/the-origins-of-the-ivy-league/#:~:text=When%20initiated%20by%20administrators%20in,of%20national%20entertainment%2C%20especially%20football. 

Answer 2

While I agree that it should be recognized as a Ivy League school, the stats show that it doesn't compare fully to these schools. While it has a low acceptance rate, there are still many students that go there that do not have the same resumes as those who attend Ivy League schools.

https://blog.prepscholar.com/is-stanford-ivy-league-duke-mit#:~:text=While%20Stanford%2C%20Duke%2C%20and%20MIT,members%20of%20the%20Ivy%20League.

Comments

While I agree that Stanford would not be an academic outlier if added to the Ivy League, your reasoning for lack of prestige does not align with other sources that note Stanford's exclusion from the Ivy's. This can be identified as its lack of location in the East Coast, its newer founding date, alongside its lack of athletic success during the time the Ivy's were created.

Answer 3

If the Ivy League meant that those are the best, the most rigorous, and the most selective universities in America, then I would agree that Stanford should be a part of that group. However, while the Ivy League schools are known for "academic excellence and high selectivity in their admissions," they are not actually the best 8 universities in the country. According to US News, the top eight American universities are Princeton, MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Yale, University of Chicago, Johns Hopkins, and UPenn. Only 4 of these are Ivy League. According to Niche, the 8 most selective schools in the country are Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, CalTech, Yale, MIT, University of Chicago, and Columbia. Only 4 of these are Ivy League. 

The Ivy League doesn't actually mean that these are the very top schools in the country (all though they are some of the best). So why are these schools grouped together? This article says that the Ivy League got its name because these schools had a tradition of growing ivy in the 1800s. Then the term "ivy" started being used for these schools in 1933 to refer to their football season. Then in 1935, "ivy" became synonymous with older east coast colleges. So it seems like Ivy League just means that these are old east coast colleges with a tradition of growing ivy, and they only happen to be among the top schools in the country. 

I don't think Stanford would really fit in with this definition, though I agree with you that it is academically on par with the Ivy League, and it shouldn't be overlooked when ranking the best schools in the country. 

Comments

I love that you provided some background on how the phrase came to be -- I had no idea that the "ivy" was literal because of the plant/vine that was present on those campuses! Interesting!

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This is a fabulous response and really taught me a lot, as zenyogi mentioned. I didn't know this either!

Answer 4

The Ivy League is the name of the athletic conference that these schools fall under, but it has now become synonymous with prestigious schools. In a U.S. News Ivy League report  it says, "First grouped together by athletic conference, Ivy League schools have been known to churn out not only well-rounded student-athletes, but future presidents, Nobel Prize winners and other high-achieving graduates". The Ivy League conference still stands today, too. So, it wouldn't necessarily make sense for a conference of 8 schools on the east coast to have a school on the west coast.

Stanford is also a lot newer compared to the Ivies. It was founded in 1885 by Leland Stanford, as a memorial for his son. The Ivies were founded at least 100 years before this, with Harvard in 1636, Yale in 1707, and Pennsylvania in 1740. The Ivies also have a different history than Stanford. For example, Harvard was originally funded by the church, then political figures. 

So, while Stanford is as prestigious as the Ivies, it wouldn't make sense to consider it an Ivy League. There are also other prestigious Universities that are not Ivies too, like University of Chicago.

Sources:

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/ivy-league-schools

https://www.stanford.edu/about/history/

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Harvard-University

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Ivy-League

Answer 5

While it is hard to fact check an opinion, I will provide reasoning for why Stanford is not an Ivy League school. 

It is important to give context to the time in which the Ivy League was established. The Ivy Leagues includes some of the United State's oldest institutions, Dartmouth dating back to 1769 and Cornell University founded in 1865. Cornell is the newest of the Ivy Leagues, still being founded 20 years prior to Stanford University. You can find these founding dates on each of the institution's websites. 

During this time the aim of the Ivy League was more than just forming a league of the United State's most academically prestigious schools. According to Tokyo Academics, the reason some of the nation's top schools like Duke, MIT, and Stanford are not included is because: "When the Ivy League was established, these institutions didn’t have notably robust athletic programs, hence their exclusion." 

Additionally, and this is not from a source but rather a guess from my preexisting knowledge, all eight Ivy League schools are in the North East. There are other schools of prestige like Stanford and The University of Chicago that are academically up to par or better than the institutions, however they would be outliers for their location which I believe was the intention of the Ivy League during the creation. 

https://www.tokyoacademics.com/blog-the-non-ivy-schools-duke-stanford-mit/#:~:text=The%20Takeaway,standards%20and%20competitive%20employment%20opportunities.